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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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Alfaraby, where are you located? Can you get "Tru-Oil"? that's very similar. They export world-wide, and they make other useful stuff, like wood
sealer. I have not tried it but it's being widely used for whole guitar bodies, and it's interesting to read comments like this:
I've used blo, tung oil, poly, and tru oil, and compared to the others tru oil gives by far the best looking finish. It
looks just like blo except it dosen't take a week to dry. I really like the finish blo was giving, but after the 1st coat it took forever to dry,
"Mississippi humidity" Tru oil is dry to the touch in a bout 4-6hours from what i've seen.
I just found this, it even has sandpaper etc in a kit  It hadn't occurred to
me, but darkening the wood with a walnut stain like this might be a nice touch on some fingerboards.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001AT3AJ8/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?p...
It makes me think of the Speed Caravan logo 
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alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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Mood: Cool
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I'm located in the middle of nowhere in the Middle East, some tiny torn apart country called the Holy Land !
So what dou you suggest ? blo, tru or tung ? What's better for the sustain matter ?
I found Tung @ ebay but they turned to be domestic only & "don't ship outside the US " !!!
Please put me a link for what you think is better for sustain.
I shall answer your last mail Fernand, but didn't get to it yet .
Thanks again
Alfaraby
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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For purposes of shipping you are in Israel? Do you want a link that will ship to Israel?
The manufacturers don't like to tell us what they put in their stuff. What most call Tung Oil only contains some Tung Oil. Tung Oil sounds good but on
reality is gard to use because it sets very slowly, and keeps a lot of flexibility. So a mix with synthetics works better. But it's confusing. We end
up using different blends. Nobody can be sure which works best.
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alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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Mood: Cool
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Palestine or Israel would be good enough !
So what to order ? Tung after-all ?
Thanks for asking any way .
yours
Alfaraby
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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No, not pure Tung Oil. I have not tried it yet, but the Tru-Oil actually looks like it might work very well and dry fast. Now that I've worked with
several of these "oils" I believe that all of them are (similar) mixes of Tung Oil, linseed oil and synthetics, and that pure Tung Oil would be THE
WORST and THE hardest to use. Birchwood Casey also offers a sealer to start with and help create a super-smooth surface.
http://cgi.befr.ebay.be/Birchwood-Casey-TRU-OIL-Wood-Stock-Refinish...
Since it's listed on this Belgian site, you should be able to find it for shipment to you. Otherwise look for Formby's Tung Oil Finish - Glossy works
OK, the low gloss is probably fine too. It comes from many sources, under the Minwax brand too, you should be able to have it shipped, like:
http://www.amazon.com/Minwax-30063-Formbys-Tung-Finish/dp/B000RMS0J...
Best of success.
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alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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Thanks Fernand
I tried over again, & here what they've said :
"Tru-Oil Gun Stock Finish, is a hazardous product and cannot be shipped outside the 48 states "
So ? What Do you suggest ? To give up ?
Yours
Alfaraby
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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Never give up. There was a u.k. Link as i recall, buy it from a european site, not a us one. Because of that word in the name some idiot bureaucrat or
software classified it as dangerous, but its a wood working finish, just find a vendor in europe or buy a different brand, or a plain boiled linseed
oil wood finish. Or anything like a Tung Oil Finish, Chinese Oil Varnish, etc. Ask DavidB i think he found a place in Paris with lots of varnishes. I
cannot hunt it down for you from here because we will land on different web addresses.
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David.B
Oud Junkie
Posts: 640
Registered: 9-5-2009
Location: France
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Mood: Renaissance
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I've been to http://www.hmb-bda.fr/, and they proposed to me "Standolie, huile de lin" (I didn't buy).
I bought at http://www.laverdure.fr/_nous-contacter.php 1 liter of "Huile de lin cuite" so I think this the plain boiled linseed oil you're talking about.
What I bought is numbered 181510 : http://www.laverdure.fr/HUILES-ET-LIANTS/huiles/f15/sf114
I did not try yet, so I can't say about this oil until now.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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I think item 180310 is real Tung oil.
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David.B
Oud Junkie
Posts: 640
Registered: 9-5-2009
Location: France
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Mood: Renaissance
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Yes, I think so... But the seller didn't tell me anything about it !
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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I'm not sure which is better. It is said that pure Tung oil takes forever to set, and tends to remain softish. So it's seldom used as pure Tung oil.
We want something that will set quite hard. Linseed oil might work better for you. There's also that Standolie mix of Tung and Linseed oils.
I personally would lean towards that Tru-Oil mixture that is SO popular for rifle stocks. But did you explain what you're doing and see what they
suggested? An analogous wood finish situation might be billiard cues, bowling pins, rifle stocks (la crosse des fusils de chasse).
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David.B
Oud Junkie
Posts: 640
Registered: 9-5-2009
Location: France
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Mood: Renaissance
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Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud  | | I personally would lean towards that Tru-Oil mixture that is SO popular for rifle stocks. But did you explain what you're doing and see what they
suggested? An analogous wood finish situation might be billiard cues, bowling pins, rifle stocks (la crosse des fusils de chasse).
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Yes, I came to the shop with a paper copy of this thread and I first show these pics :
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/files.php?pid=70673&aid=14...
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/files.php?pid=64891&aid=11...
At the end of a (long) conversation I asked about rifle manufacturers. He told me the Manufacture d'armes de Saint-Étienne called him once (without
anymore comments) and I finished with this sentence : "USA must sell more guns than France..."
Laverdure seems to be an institution (the outside and inside is old, more than a century !). If I can't find at this address I won't be able to find
anywhere else in France. By chance the seller knows his products even if he turns everything into subtle humor. I had to hang on to catch brand new
stuffs for a neophyte like me !
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
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Hi everyone,
I have quick question for you scientists out there.
in the case of a fingerboard that is inlaid with mother of pearl. Of course the finish will be absorbed into the wood part but what about the m.o.p.
inlays? will it eventually dry over it?
I like the superglue treatment but I cant seem to see the pictorial step by step when I open the file.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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I have inlays on a fretless bass fingerboard, and it's a headache. The ivory or MOP or abalone shell or plastic is harder and less permeable. On wood
the coating forms in continuity with soaked wood, it's strong. On the inlays it's a more fragile skin. It wears down, especially at the boundaries.
But it's not a tragedy. You normally inspect and refresh a "tung oil finish" coating as needed, like when you change strings. Wipe some more on if
there's wear. Unlike the first layers, it sets pretty fast. It bonds by softening the previous coat and polymerizes together much quicker. On the hard
inlays it's not as perfect, but it's not as important, as there is less tendency to wear.
Cyanoacrylate seems excellent, though i haven't tried it. The only disadvantage seems to be that it's not as easily reversed. With "wiping oil
varnishes" you can slop more on until it all goes soft, then wipe/scrape it all off, should you want to, heaven knows why.
I know, I can't find the cyanoacrylate coating pictures either; unfortunately they disappeared. But i saw them before, and it's not very complicated.
Mask the edges carefully with tape. Use a gel type? Some people spread it with a playing card, then apply the accelerator, then add more coats? sand
then steel wool until you reach the desired gloss, from rough eggshell to glass-smooth. The smoother the surface, the greater the sustain and the more
"Turkish-like" the timbre. Raise the action and roughen the coating for a more Arabic sound. With inlays the boundaries will be more fragile, so a
thicker coating would be a good idea.
On the best woods, like ebony, hard rosewood and darkest walnut ("of lions"?), a coating may or may not be necessary. I'm debating it on a couple of
Sukars.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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OK, it's been over a year since I got my Model 1 Sukar, and almost a year since I coated the neck. I've played it every day, usually several hours a
day. The strings are wearing out. As to the Tung Oil Finish coating applied to reduce fingerboard wear, the verdict is in. The wear on the
rather soft wood fingerboard is too slight to even photograph. I think David B. did two fingerboard levelings in 5 years, or was it 3? A little
shadowing shows up around Rast etc, but if you rub/clean it, it disappears. On a fretless bass I coated well over a year ago, the wear is a little
more visible, especially on the inlays, but the wood is intact.
For cosmetic reasons, and to enhance the sustain on this particular oud, I'm going to apply a fresh layer when I change the strings. But if anyone had
any doubts about the effectiveness of such a coating, you need not doubt: it works, and if finished glossy, it nicely increases the sustain that you
can get out of the oud. Where the more percussive type timbre is desired, it's simple to finish the coating less smooth/shiny.
To review ... and for our new members
The particular prep that was used on this neck was Formby's Tung Oil Finish, High Gloss, with a little Japan Drier added. I have reason to believe
that Tru Oil (which is a similar blend containing more boiled linseed oil) sets faster, can be applied thicker, and would probably be just as durable.
A generic name for such mixes is "wiping oil-based varnish", or "drying-oil based finish". They contain polymerizing ("drying") oils and petrochemical
resins, e.g. alkyds, polyurethane, plus solvents, yet are often labeled as e.g. "Tung Oil", "Danish Oil", etc. A pure drying oil, e.g. Tung or Boiled
Linseed Oil, also turns to a hard coating, yet sets so slowly as to be impractical. Petrochemical varnishes that contain no oils, e.g. polyurethane,
seem to be less resistant to wear. Cyanoacrylate (super-glue) has a very good reputation as a fingerboard coating on fretless basses, as does Epoxy.
But these set so glassy-hard that they are said to significantly alter the timbre (it might be interesting doing one oud that way! Armenians and many
Turks fret with their fingernails for better sustain!). So, in the end, Wiping Oil-Based varnishes seem to be a good compromise.
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