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begginer lesson on oud

stingerz - 11-20-2009 at 06:42 PM

hi guys, i m new here..i m frm south east asia actually, well i jus bought the oud, can you guys pls pls pls help me in postin some lesson in the oud? how to strum it? is there any particular note which is mandatory to learn just like in guitar,u got to learn to chords first b4 u can learn scales. can u guys pls help me post some lesson? like pickin wid d risha? wat r d basic techniques needed ? thank you so so much....

warm regards,

fernandraynaud - 11-20-2009 at 07:56 PM

LOTS of tips on Youtube, but Marina Toshich's The basics Of Oud is very useful, comes with a DVD.

Look at this for basic position and technique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hsrNsH_kNo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJblVVutakc

If you read music, it helps to print out a chart of where notes are. The enclosed is a spreadsheet I made for the standard Arabic tuning: C FF AA DD gg cc (and for an alternate tuning C EE AA DD gg cc). Use the standard one. In-between notes are not shown, but very important. Equal Tempered like on a piano is not what you end up playing in, but it's useful to use an electronic tuner at first to tune up and find your way. For instance Ajam is very close to a major scale, but Ajam on C will have a slightly flattened E that sounds mellower. Try it and you will see.

This is a pretty good tuner for the PC:

http://www.aptuner.com/cgi-bin/aptuner/apmain.html

This series starting on the link below shows you the idea of a Maqam, or mode, that replaces the notion of scale. Everybody comes here expecting to play oud much as other instruments, and 99% end up studying the Arabic way. You don't play chords normally, because the sound is so thick on single notes anyway, chords don't sound very good, and, well, the harmony is sequential, not vertical, you'll understand more as you go ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1juvZaSk0A&NR=1

[file]12419[/file]

[file]12418[/file]

If it helps you, you can mark the strings temporarily, as shown here: http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=9584

This DVD is great if you get deeper into Arabic music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijZmTxkYsoE&feature=related

Welcome and enjoy!

Sazi - 11-20-2009 at 07:59 PM

You can start right here...

http://www.mikeouds.com/

second tab from the bottom... "Learn to Play"

best of luck, hope you enjoy your new oud

stingerz - 11-20-2009 at 08:13 PM

thanks guys..oh n 1 more thin, is it ok to use a pick for the oud? like in guitar? :airguitar:

fernandraynaud - 11-20-2009 at 08:29 PM

PLEASE try not to use a guitar pick, there are some players who do, but it's a bad way to start because your right hand is all tight with the fingers holding the pick. The right wrist should be pretty relaxed and SWING with the risha. If you don't have a proper risha, look at your shirts, maybe you have those collar stays that keep the collar flat, those are a little small, but better than a guitar pick. You can sand the tip, try shaping it to a rounded point, so you can play tremolo smoothly. People make rishas out of all sorts of plastic. Look at some of the videos to see the usual shapes and sizes.

stingerz - 11-20-2009 at 08:39 PM

i have a risha but its super thin,,tts y i like to use d pick cos its a bit thicker...any suggestions???

fernandraynaud - 11-20-2009 at 08:49 PM

if it's very thin, it's probably pretty stiff. If you shape it right, you attack the strings with the edge, not plucking with the whole tip, look at my other posts, there's even a slow motion video. Otherwise see if you can find something else to make a thicker one out of. It should be long enough to rest in the palm of your hand, and give you that SNAP.

Aymara - 11-21-2009 at 03:19 AM

Hi!

Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud

PLEASE try not to use a guitar pick, ...

I have a different opinion here, because I also switched from the guitar to the oud recently.

Because I always was an autodidact, I decided to first use my favorite guitar plectrum and concentrate only on the fretless fingerboard to get used to it.

After this was done, I began trying different rishahs, including a goose feather, which I realy like by now.

I think this approach to switch from guitar to oud is better, as if you try to do all at once ... learning with both hands. In my opinion it's better to first concentrate on the left hand and after one or two weeks concentrate on the right hand.

But hey ... this is MY opinion ... and I'm not an oud teacher

... just a guitarist, who is successful with his own learning plan.

Regarding risha choice read THIS thread.

stingerz - 11-21-2009 at 07:26 AM

well thanks guys...well jus for yr info though,here in my country not many ppl play the oud. out of ten i would say only 1. so anythin to do yr d oud or stuff like tt i gotta make it on my own.like a simple risha i gotta find a way to make my own..d length and d thickness for my own personal preference. unlike some countries u guys hav a shop sellin oud stuff...get my point? well i m nt tt good in d oud but i m figurin out d sounds of it(as i ve been playin d guitar for 12 years) n i kinda like d oud better...so i m tryin to "feel" around d oud neck,sound n stuff...bt i kw i gotta hav proper lesson in d oud like d maqam and etc....

thanks guys for d advice..

FLIPAX - 11-21-2009 at 11:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by stingerz

hi guys, i m new here..i m frm south east asia actually,

Ola Stingerz! :wavey:

Can I ask where you from? which country exactly?

People here are very helpful don''t hesitate to ask anybody here regarding the oud. Coz we all love the Oud! :xtreme:

So hopefully having an open mind into their advises is a must and try to listen to arabic music.

First try the Instrumental ensembles, then search in Youtube famous oudist. also check other players from wikipedia they have a good reference of amazing oudist. I can't give u a list coz it will be too much to write in. And you can see better in wiki. It is categorized by its countries.

But we have basically if you want oudist who play chords we have the iraqi school. They play some chords. and also oudist that mixed flamenco styles often put some basic triads and diads for a little harmony.

Regarding risha you should used all thickness and sizes. Find the best suitable for your likeness. I may my own rishas by sanding it and making the thickness to your liking.

Hope U have great day.

Adios patrios amigo!

Gracias

Philip :airguitar:

Aymara - 11-21-2009 at 01:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by FLIPAX

..., then search in Youtube famous oudist.

That helps to check out, how to hold the oud and the risha ... also have a look at the fingerboard technique.

PS: There is someone from Cairo here in the forums, who will give lessons online by webcam and microphone.

stingerz - 11-21-2009 at 05:22 PM

i m from singapore....

well can i use a plastic bottle? like from a bottle of coke? jus cut it into a shape of a risha and sand it? is tt ok?? guys i ve got a problem wid my oud... the tuning pegs re super hard to turn! and it hurts my fingers actually...how do i make it easier to turn? i ve applied baby oil to the shaft of the peg to make it smooth when tuning, but when i did that, it slips and the strings and it pegs became loose... any suggestions guys???

thanks :wavey:

FLIPAX - 11-21-2009 at 05:55 PM

Hi stingerz!

Quote: Originally posted by stingerz

i m from singapore....

Good to know Man! :applause:

Quote: Originally posted by stingerz

well can i use a plastic bottle? like from a bottle of coke? jus cut it into a shape of a risha and sand it? is tt ok??

Nooooo...................Bottle of Coke. Thats Dangerous!!

Plastic its oks. Works like a charm.

My Advise is to cut out from Shampoo Bottles especially dove Products. They're Flexible.

Quote: Originally posted by stingerz

i ve applied baby oil to the shaft of the peg to make it smooth when tuning, but when i did that, it slips and the strings and it pegs became loose... any suggestions guys???

Apply Chalk on the shaft and the pegs to fix this slippery.

If Its too tight again. Please dont Use Oil! :shrug:

Just Rub a Very Dry Soap around the Pegs! :xtreme:

Waalllaaaahh Finish Problem Solve.

I Hope.

Cheers,

Flip :airguitar:

stingerz - 11-21-2009 at 08:06 PM

hey flipax !cool...,,, ....ok i cut off the plastic bottle from my head n shoulders shampoo! thanks!

:applause:

FLIPAX - 11-22-2009 at 12:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by stingerz

hey flipax !cool...,,, ....ok i cut off the plastic bottle from my head n shoulders shampoo! thanks!

:applause:

No Problem! :xtreme:

Caio!

Flip :airguitar:

fernandraynaud - 11-22-2009 at 12:15 AM

If you put oil on the pegs, you might have to get that oil off. Number them with a pencil or marker, each peg is unique, take them out, wash the oil off with a little soap & water and let dry. You can sand the pegs a little bit if you have to even something out, but very very lightly or they might not fit the hole. A rough wood actually holds fine. Clean the hole with a rag and pencil. After the pegs dry, rub a tiny bit with a piece of old & dry ordinary soap and a tiny bit of chalk on the pegs in the places where the pegs meet the wood. Turn in the hole to spread. You really want just a trace of each. The soap is the lube, and the chalk is the brake.

The mix is right when pegs are a bit hard to turn, then suddenly start to turn, and turn smoothly until you stop, and then they sort of "freeze" again. If you put too much on, wash and start over. Always push the peg in as you tune, and wrap the strings on so they are up against the pegbox wall, that makes them pull the peg in.

Have fun. If you have one guy in ten playing the oud where you come from, I think you might have more oud players than anywhere else on earth.

Oh, and don't listen to that Aymara guy from near Dortmund with his guitar pick theory, he's already moved on to playing with chicken heads and stuff like that.

FLIPAX - 11-22-2009 at 01:18 AM

Hi Mr Tony!

How's Everything? hope your fine!

BTW thanks for the tip you gave me on my Pick-up Thread.

Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud

Oh, and don't listen to that Aymara guy from near Dortmund with his guitar pick theory,

Thats a Heck of a Thing going on inside his brains!

LOL

Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud

he's already moved on to playing with chicken heads and stuff like that.

Chris is a Real Work of Art I may Say......

BTW hey Chris did u got the PDF on Strings I sent you?

Gracias,

Flip :airguitar:

Aymara - 11-22-2009 at 02:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud

Oh, and don't listen to that Aymara guy from near Dortmund with his guitar pick theory, he's already moved on to playing with chicken heads and stuff like that.

No, no, it's a bit different ... I need the chicken heads for my Voodoo ritual, which enables me to pick the strings only with telekinesis

Just joking ... I tried a goose feather as a risha, because historic oud players used an eagle's feather. I reported about this feather HERE.

Quote: Originally posted by FLIPAX

BTW hey Chris did u got the PDF on Strings I sent you?

I already translated it ... check your emails, Philip.

stingerz - 11-22-2009 at 04:50 AM

haha u guys r funny bunch....ok i try wat u guys told me too..btw i was planning to go to iraq or greece for a oud makin session actually...i wanna open a oud shop here if everytin goes smoothly...dis guy cal dimitris at greece(athens) told me to come on august next yr as he will b holdin a "workshop" on oud makin n stuff...i was plannin to go to d middle east actually..

well 1st is a lot cheaper.
2nd its nearer. (from my country.)

do u guys hav any idea wher or which country has these kind of workshop .. money is no concern of mine but as long the figures doesnt goes sky rocket!then from ther, i might learn d oud from a pro and pick up some skills on the way...tt was my plan...any suggestions guys? :wavey:

FLIPAX - 11-22-2009 at 05:03 AM

Quote: Originally posted by stingerz

haha u guys r funny bunch....ok i try wat u guys told me too..

Yeah!

Were like The Adams Oud Family here man!

Quote: Originally posted by stingerz

do u guys hav any idea wher or which country has these kind of workshop .. money is no concern of mine

Check Cairo and Istanbul for workshops. No News yet so Far..
Wow You Seem to be Well overpaid there.

Quote: Originally posted by stingerz

i might learn d oud from a pro and pick up some skills on the way...tt was my plan...any suggestions guys? :wavey:

Try To go to Nasser Shamma in Cairo Oud House Conservatory.
There are a Lot of Proffessional Oudist there. Might not be Famous but definetely Good in Oud Playin'.

Hmmmm.....

Try Simon Shaheen if you can catch him.... He's a good teacher.

Goodluck!

Gracias

Flip :airguitar:

stingerz - 11-22-2009 at 05:43 AM

flipax u ve been to ciaro and learn d oud from shaheen?? btw do u have any ideas how much is it???

Aymara - 11-22-2009 at 05:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by stingerz

...btw i was planning to go to iraq or greece for a oud makin session actually...

Maybe drop Samir Azar in Syria an email. Regarding the photos on his website, he seems to give workshops too ... just make shure and ask ... he has a great reputation as a luthier in these forums.

Regarding your search for a teacher ... maybe try Hassan's online lessons.

FLIPAX - 11-22-2009 at 05:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by stingerz

flipax u ve been to ciaro and learn d oud from shaheen??

Nope but Im here Learning at Oud House Same Naseer shamma school in abu dhabi. its ok. but I'll continue to study when I get back on my vacation this comin' december.

About Shaheen there are some members here that shaheen taught i dont remember who they were. but they say he's good. I'll Take their word for it. Ask Mike Greg or TP21 sure they have some answers.

Quote: Originally posted by stingerz

btw do u have any ideas how much is it???

Not That much I suppose. One hour lesson maybe 500 AED depends on the teacher if he's famous. Not sure mate. I never yet had a famous teacher so maybe its more expensive.

Anyways Goodluck.

Philip :airguitar:

stingerz - 11-22-2009 at 06:05 AM

ok thanks...well i ll be goin on a 2 weeks vacantion next year actually bt d date n month is nt set yet,,,so i guess i ll be headin to abu dhabi or eygpt..thanks

FLIPAX - 11-22-2009 at 06:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by stingerz

so i guess i ll be headin to abu dhabi or eygpt..thanks

Ok see u soon... :wavey:

Salam

Philip

stingerz - 11-22-2009 at 05:09 PM

hey guys, just a quick question here, is it ok for me to do some markings on the top of the neck of the oud? so that i can recognize where to go n stuff like that..is that ok?

i saw some pictures online that they have some sort of markings on the neck itself...i dont know whether is that ok or is it for learning purposes...

thanks guys

Sazi - 11-22-2009 at 06:07 PM

Hey dude, go for it if you think it will help, it's even suggested in at least one oud learning book.

happy ouding

fernandraynaud - 11-22-2009 at 07:10 PM

If you're considering markers, look at my posts on marking the strings, like
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=9584

It works much better than marking the neck. Yes, some ouds have markers inlaid in the neck to begin with, Farid played an oud like that. No big deal either way, not a sin. As my "automatic pilot" has gotten better, I let the markings get rubbed out, but I still refresh them before some recording sessions.

DaveH - 11-23-2009 at 01:09 AM

Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud

After the pegs dry, rub a tiny bit with a piece of old & dry ordinary soap and a tiny bit of chalk on the pegs in the places where the pegs meet the wood. Turn in the hole to spread. You really want just a trace of each. The soap is the lube, and the chalk is the brake.

I'm not sure I'd recommend using both soap and chalk at the same time if you can avoid it. Soap is for lubricating, chalk is for stiffening and you should try to use as little as possible of whichever is appropriate. Best to try to avoid getting a gunky mess all over your pegs.

Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud

Always push the peg in as you tune, and wrap the strings on so they are up against the pegbox wall, that makes them pull the peg in.

The best way of pushing the peg in as you tune is by hooking a finger around the peg box wall as you turn the peg. It takes a bit of practice to work out a comfortable way to do it, but this avoids you actually pushing the whole pegbox sideways and putting pressure on the neck-pegbox joint. However, it's a bad idea to actually have the string wrapped against the pegbox wall as it will more than likely trap the peg and add to your tuning problems. The string should be wound towards the thick end of the peg so that its angle pulls the peg inwards (though this is only really important towards the neck end of the peg box where this angle will be most acute) but make sure you leave a gap between the wound string and the pegbox wall. Precise winding "strategy" will depend to some extent on where your pegs are drilled (sometimes they're drilled in all the wrong places!) and needs a bit of trial and error.