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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Mood: Stringish
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Although not myself a luthier, I find jdowning's assessment quite convincing.
Many of the best ouds I've ever played had multiple-piece soundboards. I don't think that this was because they couldn't get big enough pieces. Also
notable is that very tight grain is rare. Again, I doubt that this is because tight grain was unavailable.
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Although now a bit off topic this earlier discussion on multiple piece sound boards may be of general interest.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=12601
As well as how to select the potentially best sound board material with low cost test equipment
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=12819#pid87...
Brian is right - tight straight grain, colour and other cosmetic features of wood alone do not necessarily make an acoustically 'good' sound board
material.
As I recall one of the images of multiple piece sound boards of the Nahat family ouds posted on Richard Hankey's website shows some very crooked
(longitudinal grain) - no doubt deliberately intended as a decorative feature - as that part of the sound board is glued over the neck block so does
not participate in the sound board vibration characteristics. Crooked longitudinal grain is not the same as detrimental grain runout due to spiral
tree growth that is probably impossible to detect visually in a thin sawn sound board blank.
See Abdo Nahat 1906 fingerboard, third image here
http://www.droud.com/Abdo.html
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
Posts: 78
Registered: 6-4-2015
Location: Germany / Leipzig
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After attaching the neck with a regular dowel I started with the sound board.
It will be an engelmann spruce top with one sound hole, without a rosette (for the first oud). I made a more or less standard inlay.
Note that it's not done with finishing yet.
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
Posts: 78
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Location: Germany / Leipzig
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Any hints would be very appreciated before I go into bracing the sound board.
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
Posts: 78
Registered: 6-4-2015
Location: Germany / Leipzig
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Mood: contented
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I finished the sound board (2-2.3mm) with the bracing and pick guard.
The pickguard (0.3mm) is palisander to match the peg box and later finger board & bridge.
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
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because your braces are quite thin on the edges, I would go with a half binding if possible.
it is a beautiful job on the bracing and I think it should sound very good.
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 733
Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
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Mood: Loving my oud
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Looking really nice. How heavy are the mechanical tuners now that you have them attached?
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Nice work. Did you make the sound board with 4 pieces or are what seem to be added side pieces just an illusion due to a colour stripe in the wood
grain?
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majnuunNavid
Oud Junkie
Posts: 622
Registered: 7-22-2013
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Mood: Dude, where's my Oud?
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I like the single sound hole, and the risha guard is tasteful.
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
Posts: 78
Registered: 6-4-2015
Location: Germany / Leipzig
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Thank you guys !
I really appreciate your compliments.
Samir, even if they look a bit thinner than they really are I'm thinking about making a half binding.
It seems like that but, do you know if a half binding is a more stable construction ?
Yesterday I mounted the board to the body and it fitted surprisingly well (before fixing it with glue).
There's no doubt that these machine heads bring weight to neck.
Unfortunately I missed to weigh a single head.
In spite of the extra weight it doesn't feel like the oud is unbalanced, although I never had another oud in my hands.
I'll be able to compare it when I built a classic style peg box oud.
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
Posts: 78
Registered: 6-4-2015
Location: Germany / Leipzig
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Thank you Mr. Downing !
Indeed it is an illusion.
It's a regular two piece book matched sound board.
As I mentioned before it's a non-high grade board, which contains these color stripes.
In this case I'm happy with it, the grain is not to irregular, becomes quite tight in the middle and
it could be much worse 
I'm glad you like it majnuunNavid ! Is it possible to say what type of oud (egypt,arab etc.) it will represent regarding the single sound hole and an
extended finger board ?
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
Posts: 78
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Location: Germany / Leipzig
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By the way, if anyone could provide the measurements of a bridge, I would be very happy.
I would like to compare, so far I found out for my oud:
string attachment post (?)
length: minimum of 10cm
with: 1cm
height: 1.5cm
The distance between each course and each string would be interesting too.
The string height at the bridge should be about 9mm(?)
Please feel free to correct my data !!
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
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OK, I see that now from the previously posted image of the untrimmed sound board blank. The irregular bacterial stain in the grain of a sound board,
of course, has no effect on the goodness or otherwise of the material - it is just one of those cosmetic features included in the luthier trade
grading practices - presumably because the consumer public demands it? An excuse to jack up the price of an equivalent piece of wood that does not
have stain!
You can always add a rosette at a later date if desired (without having to remove the sound board) by incorporating a slot or equivalent space in the
edge of the rosette pattern. However, the presence or otherwise of the rosette makes little if any difference to the acoustics. It is the sound hole
diameter to bowl air volume that matters.
Coming from the European lute culture the only traditional choice for edge treatment of a sound board is 1) no binding, 2) no binding but with the
edge protected with a glued on strip of fabric or parchment, 3) half binding.
I am not sure when the full depth edge tile arrangement found on present day ouds came into being but it seems to me to be an inferior arrangement
compared to half depth binding (both from a strength and ease of execution perspective) - although forum member ALAMI recently reports that he has an
older oud that is completely missing its full depth binding and yet still produces a good sound!
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
Posts: 78
Registered: 6-4-2015
Location: Germany / Leipzig
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Thank you Mr. Downing for another post of great value !
I really hoped by myself about stains on sound boards wouldn't be so much of disadvantage.
Now I have prove.
Nice to hear that the rosette can be added later, but for this oud I will leave it like that. (I think  )
It is really interessting that bindings of instruments differ so much.
I'm familiar with full depth bindings on guitars and mandolins and did recognize that some of them are those kind of wedge bindings. Which seems to be
full depth binding but is actually half.
Another way is that often seen binding on guitars which includes a half binding.
Like on the picture below an outside binding is covering the half binding.
This seems to be a very stable way to bind.
Right now I don't really know which one I will choose for the oud.
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Mood: No Mood
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Traditionally ouds (and lutes) did not have modern guitar like internal kerf linings. The edges of the sound boards were glued directly to the outer
ribs that might be less than 2 mm in thickness.
Be careful not to build an oud that is more akin to a guitar in construction and sound. This is how the modern revival lutes at the beginning of the
1960's were first being made - non authentic, heavily built and strung to enable classical guitar players like Julian Bream to switch between guitar
and lute without changing technique - and producing enough volume to be heard by a moderate sized audience. I doubt if any of those lute like guitars
are being played these days?
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
Posts: 78
Registered: 6-4-2015
Location: Germany / Leipzig
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Actually you're right. I already got this advice from a friend who said that I have to stick with oud construction and not mix it so much with guitar
or else.
I will make a half binding today.
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
Posts: 78
Registered: 6-4-2015
Location: Germany / Leipzig
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The half - binding went surprisingly well !!!
I choosed the binding material so that it looks like the "rib pattern" is continued. It was nice to see that my plan worked for me.
Pictures below showing the walnut - maple binding with the half spruce top looking like the other maple blades between the actual ribs.
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
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Great work. so clean!
What tools did you use to perform the rabbet?
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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Microber
Oud Junkie
Posts: 853
Registered: 1-20-2006
Location: Belgium - Liège
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Very nice !
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
Posts: 78
Registered: 6-4-2015
Location: Germany / Leipzig
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Thank you guys !
I used a dremel tool. But had to cut it "per hand" with a sharp razor at both neck ends which worked as well.
There's still a tollerance of +- 0.5 mm.
Today I attached the finger board and the necklace. Pictures will follow.
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
Posts: 78
Registered: 6-4-2015
Location: Germany / Leipzig
Member Is Offline
Mood: contented
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Here are the pictures.
Note that only the peg box, neck, fingerboard are already finished and highlighted now.
The bridge as well.
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
Posts: 78
Registered: 6-4-2015
Location: Germany / Leipzig
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Mood: contented
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I still need the height of the strings at the nut & Bridge. Highly appreciated if anyone could help me please.
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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As you have a guitar style raised fingerboard the best plan might be to intal the nut (or a temporary nut) at the correct string height (1 mm or so)
above the fingerboard surface. Run a string - tied to one of the 'pegs' - over the nut and pull it tight. Lower the string at the bridge position
until the string action or height above the fingerboard surface at the neck joint is where you want it (2.5 mm or so). Use a narrow strip of wood of
that thickness as a gauge. Then just measure the string height above the sound board at the bridge position to determing the height to drill the
string holes.
Or use a straight edge in place of a string.
Note that if your bridge tie block is high enough there will be some (small) scope to increase action by 'pulling up' the strings tied to the bridge
if required.
String height at the nut may be lowered by filing the string grooves a bit deeper - or increased by placing a wooden veneer shim under the nut.
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
Posts: 78
Registered: 6-4-2015
Location: Germany / Leipzig
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Alright, thank you so much Mr Downing ! Thats exactly what I wanted to know.
It is of great value to have someone with your skills and knowledge always willing to help out others.
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3404
Registered: 6-4-2004
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An ideal string height for me is 1.2 cm at the bridge. I would not go lower than 1cm. It leaves enough room for the risha to operate freely.
that fingerboard is very thick! I would make the bridge as it should be and then remove material from the fingerboard as necessary.
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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